Forum Topic

Cleaning Our Streets

Almost every piece of research ever undertaken shows residents across London want their Council to prioritise street cleaning. So, it's good news for everyone that the Tidy Britain Group found H&F to have the fourth cleanest streets out of the 32 London Boroughs.This month’s Council propaganda has the story on page two with the new administration's cabinet member basking in this success. But hang on a minute, the period being measured is when Labour were in Administration and the Tories pre-election literature told everyone that our streets were "filthy" and if elected they would do more.Why then have the Conservative Administration just published their first budget announcing a massive £915, 000 cut in the street-cleaning service? Seems they're doing a lot less.Cllr. Michael CartwrightLabour

Michael Cartwright ● 6728d15 Comments

I am afraid that I think you are being very rude Mark and it's that type of thing that has put me off politics in the past.I'm actually not that interested in politics but I have found the debate between you and your Labour adversary quite interesting. I don’t mind too much if our street cleaning isn’t the fourth best in Britain anymore (or in fact gets worst) as you’ve done well to cut tax so I understand why you won’t answer the Labour guys questions.I usually vote Conservative and I am particularly impressed with David Cameron but I think you should at least try and talk to each other in a civilised way.With respectful regards.

Franco Hayes ● 6706d

I am afraid that I think you are being very rude Mark and it's that type of thing that has put me off politics in the past.I'm actually not that interested in politics but I have found the debate between you and your Labour adversary quite interesting. I don’t mind too much if our street cleaning isn’t the fourth best in Britain anymore as you’ve done well to cut tax so I understand why you won’t answer the Labour guys questions.I usually vote Conservative and I am particularly impressed with David Cameron but I think you should at least try and talk to each other in a civilised way.With respectful regards.

Franco Hayes ● 6706d

Stephen.Unlike you, I have not recently discovered this forum and started issuing pompous "challenges". Look up the word "troll" on an online dictionary to understand what most people posting on this forum will think of you.1. Don't accuse us of using h&f News as propaganda. H&f News is nothing like the awful propaganda magazine you produced called HFM. For example, it includes features on opposition councillors (which you never allowed in HFM magazine) and I have seen your face in h&f News more than once.Oh, I forgot to say. H&f News costs £250,000 a year less than you wasted on HFM - thus saving money for Council Tax cuts and street cleaning.2. The article you referred to did not say anything about the Tories claiming credit for anything. It welcomed the Tidy Britain Group finding that our streets were cleaner. We have gone on to make improvements since we took over from you - and the article refers to them.3. Of course we want to deliver cleaner streets. I have news for you. People in the borough already feel that their environment is improving (slowly but we had over 20 years of neglect by you and your predecessors to deal with) and no amount of scaremongering by you on this board can change that.In the mean time, I am off to spend some more time trying to deliver on our election promise of making the borough cleaner and greener whilst delivering Council Tax cuts. Forgive me if I don't have all day to post on this forum.

Mark Loveday ● 6715d

Cllr. Loveday. Are you still out there as it's been eight days since I posted these two questions below and you haven't responded?“1. Why is the new Tory Administration trying to hood-wink local people and take credit for the fourth cleanest streets in London (4 out of 33) when the period being measured was under the previous Labour Administration?2. Can the Conservative Administration guarantee the same or an even better level of service now it has cut £915, 000 from the street cleaning budget?”

Stephen Cowan ● 6716d

“1. Why is the new Tory Administration trying to hood-wink local people and take credit for the fourth cleanest streets in London (4 out of 33) when the period being measured was under the previous Labour Administration?2. Can the Conservative Administration guarantee the same or an even better level of service now it has cut £915, 000 from the street cleaning budget?”It may be actually correct that the street cleaning service will be substandard in our borough follow the budget cut due to kick in this April. Cllr. Mark Loveday (Con) has gone strangly quite on the issue and not answered the above questions.Hopefully he’ll enlighten us soon.

Stephen Cowan ● 6722d

Sorry, I wasn't implying that services are sub-standard in this particular case.  I meant that, in general, we in the UK seem happy to have poor services as long as we don't have to pay too much for them rather than to pay higher taxes for better services.

Andrew Broadbent ● 6722d

"Surely it is too early to see if the services will be sub-standard?"You're right. It is too early to tell as the £915, 000 cut in the street cleaning budget doesn't take effect until the new financial year starts on April 1st.

Stephen Cowan ● 6723d

Surely it is too early to see if the services will be sub-standard?

Franco Hayes ● 6723d

"At least it is worse in France" - is that a good thing ?What a strange thing to say.  At least the French get off their arses and go on strike/set fire to stuff when they disagree with their government.We seem willing to accept sub-standard services as long as they are cheap.  Sad.

Andrew Broadbent ● 6724d

Hello MarkYou haven’t answered the questions implicit in Mike Cartwright’s original posting.1. Why is the new Tory Administration trying to hood-wink local people and take credit for the fourth cleanest streets in London (4 out of 33) when the period being measured was under the previous Labour Administration?2. Can the Conservative Administration guarantee the same or an even better level of service now it has cut £915, 000 from the street cleaning budget?You and I attended a public scrutiny committee (Value for Money) on Wednesday evening. I asked the second question to the Council’s Financial Director about all of the Council services where you have cut funding. She began by saying this was a political question and she shouldn’t answer it. Then would only go as far as saying she was “confident that the level of services would be in line with the wishes of the democratically elected aministration”. Anyone having seen Yes Minister would have understood that this was officer-speak for “no” she cannot guarantee it and some services will deteriorate.Will you therefore please answer both of the above questions in relation to the street cleaning service?Thanks

Stephen Cowan ● 6724d

The proof of the pudding is in the eating (if that's not too distasteful a metaphor for street cleaning). I know we've had a lot of wind and rain recently but I've been out and about this sunny Sunday morning and have been very conscious of the litter in Bradmore Park Road and Cardross St.So far it's no worse than it has been on other occasions so I'm not drawing any conclusions at this stage. However, I'd invite you to think about a City Code (like the Country Code), publicising it in H&F News, for example, and ensuring that children are taught it at school. You could solicit contributions from residents for items to be included in the Code (no more than twelve) but 'not littering' would be high up the list.

Rosemary Pettit ● 6724d

This is an interesting thread. One Labour councillor sets it up and his story is then 'welcomed' by another one as a patsy. Good work, boys! (not you, William - I am sure you have better things to do than be a councillor).As I have said elsewhere, this story is (apologise for the pun) rubbish. We are testing street cleaning against the private sector (i.e. put it out to tender so both private sector compnaies and the in-house team can bid for the work). This has already prompted our own staff to come up with creative ways of re-organising themselves and saving cash. We were one of the few Councils locally operating an old-style direct labour force, and the fact is that it was not particularly efficient. We have calculated we will save the best part of £1 million on this - but the exercise should not lead to any reduction in service.Whether you call this a "cut" (as Labour does) or an "efficiency" (as the Conservatives do) is pure politics. Take your pick.As for dogs, since 1987 we haven't had the legal power to licence dogs. The govt promised in its 1996 manifesto to bring in compulsory registration but they seem to have quietly dropped this scheme. If you feel strongly enough, lobby your MP.I recently asked officers about dog enforcement and your posting has reminded me that I haven't had an answer. I will post something more here about it when I get an answer.

Mark Loveday ● 6725d

I think we ought to have a rebuttal from the present administration if that is true.  I see plans are afoot to do something about the uncontrolled dogs.  The first thing to do is to have dog licences, and meaningful ones costing £50 at least, and that those licences and the licence number be visible on the dog collar.  At the moment any old mutt can be acquired - quite often for purposes of intimidation.  And who is going to enforce?  At least it is worse in France.

William Hosking ● 6725d

I agree with that and love the idea of an urban code.

Stephen Cowan ● 6725d

What would mitigate a reduction - and generally be a GOOD THING - would be if children and others were educated to respect the environment and not drop litter. Back this up by sharp fines for those found to drop litter and there would be less need for street cleaning, not only now but projected into the future.Do children keep their schools clean and tidy and look after them? Are they shown how to do this? And the reasons given?We tend to treat the effects rather than look at the causes. If nobody dropped litter, there would be little need for street cleaning other than to sweep up general dirt and leaves. That may be a counsel of perfection but until we begin to tackle a 'don't care' attitude in the early years of school, we're always going to be cleaning up after the offenders.So I would propose that an Urban Code (rather like the Country Code)be taught in schools from an early age, as a complement to good citizenship.

Rosemary Pettit ● 6726d