Forum Topic

Events Licence in Ravenscourt Pk

I’m a bit amused to read what is being proposed for the events licence for Ravenscourt Park:• boxing and wrestling events • to be able to sell alcohol • amplified live music • the playing of recorded music • late night refreshmentIs Ravenscourt Pk going to go into head on competition with ‘The Hart’ on King Street? You can already find a combination of all the above there on a Friday or Saturday night. Anyway on a more serious note, I think it’s a retrograde step and may cancel out any benefits that have been achieved from the anti-social behaviour policies currently being deployed out in the borough. 

John Kennedy ● 6489d17 Comments

The Licensing Committee date for this has been set as Oct 30th. The public can attend.I've written a full update on all the recent developments here:http://thecowanreport.blogspot.com/2007/10/will-h-council-abolish-publics-rights.htmlBest wishesCllr. Stephen CowanLeader of the Opposition

Stephen Cowan ● 6469d

I'm with Frances and Andrew on this two. I think this can only be positive. Having events in the Park will be a bonus not a nuisance. Also it means that there will be active management in that area during the night, so there's someone there to deal with any antisocial elements - where there is not usually.

Beccy Thorp ● 6479d

I must say I'm with you Andrew on this one.  I'm pretty sure the Park is not going to be home to frequent and regular nuisance events and in general, I think open air Park events are more a positive thing for the community than otherwise.  I for one miss the occasional music events Ravenscourt Park used have on in the summer years ago (usually afternoon to early evening only).

Frances McAllister ● 6483d

We've received 2 notes through our door about this (as if we don't get enough junk mail already).  One of them even implied that there might be 'child safety' issues as a result of this !I resent the idea that it is assumed that 'most residents will be opposed to this'; how do you any of you know ?I didn't notice anyone kicking-up a stink when the opera was on; is it OK for those of us overlooking the park to be disrupted by opera but not by modern, popular music or the noble art of boxing ?  Are you lot not fearful of the ne'er-do-wells attracted by the fair ?  I don't hear anyone complaining about disruption or increase in petty crime when the fair comes to the Park. Such a licence would result in a few, occasional events not weekly, 24-hour raves.  Stop over-reacting.

Andrew Broadbent ● 6484d

Our house backs onto the park and we already have a problem with noise as some youths do get past the regular patrols into the park at night.  I am very disappointed at the prospect of late night music at the weekends when one of the attractions of where we live now is how quiet it is at night. We will be strenuously objecting to the application.

Emma Thatcher ● 6485d

An Open Reply to:Cllr. Paul Bristow H&F Council’s Cabinet Member for Residents’ ServicesDear PaulThe Fireworks Party was legal even after 2003. I think you need to check what you’re telling people with some licensing experts as you’re misleading the public.The fireworks, opera or the fair would have been outside of the law if you wanted to sell hot food and hot drinks after 11.00pm. If you also want to sell alcohol or put on boxing and wrestling events you would need a Premises Licence which is what you’ve applied for.However, your Administration could have made the Council's Licence Application event specific - only covering the fireworks, the opera and the fair for specific times. You did not have to put wrestling or boxing into your application. Indeed, if you wanted to put on any extra events outside of those specified in your application you could have applied for a Variation to the Licence. This would have required the Council to undertake a public consultation each time you did this.You went for a generic licence giving the Council carte blanch to put on any event it likes at any time. I understand that you did this because you wanted the freedom that this licence would give you and as it’s much cheaper not to have to consult the public each time.While I’m normally in favour of cost cutting I would suggest that democracy doesn’t come cheap and that you should not have sought to curtail the public’s right to be consulted for each event. Asking them to trust you not to put on wrestling is unnecessary when you didn’t need to apply to do it in the first place.I understand from your officials that you also planned similar applications for other parks in the borough.I will attend the licensing Committee and argue that your licence application is amended accordingly. I hope you will support me?Best wishesCllr. Stephen CowanLeader of the Opposition

Stephen Cowan ● 6485d

Stephen, you know this is not true.  We have done this in Ravensncourt and Bishops Park - because this is where the Fireworks events are held.All we are doing is regularising the status quo.  The Fireworks events have actually been outside the law as stated in the Licensing Act 2003.  This is not a situation that can continue.There are opportunities to ammend the license at the Licensing Panel Applicaton.  We will not hold events in our parks which are going to cause undue disturbance to local people.

Cllr Paul Bristow ● 6486d

"In my experience the phrase "boxing and wrestling" on the application is a bit of a red herring in that it is standard terminology on these applications."Why is it a red herring?  They needn't have ticked that box but they did.

Richard Jennings ● 6487d

I quite like the idea of using Ravenscourt Park for outdoor events. I live just across the road from this park, and used it a lot when my daughter was smaller --- but not so much in recent years. we love the fireworks though. If carefully regulated, it could be a benefit to the area. Perhaps the council should look at the number and type of events however --- and put forward a defined programme with a finish time of 23.00 hrs, rather than apply for a blanket premises licence. Residents might be reassured by this information. If this works well in the first year, put a case forward for later hours with reasons why for specific events. In my experience the phrase "boxing and wrestling" on the application is a bit of a red herring in that it is standard terminology on these applications. I wouldn't want that type of event either. Also most london parks with these types of license have a decibel limit of 85 rather than 90, and it is easy to regulate with the use of sound limiters and commonsense. The difficult and most troublesome thing is bass beat, which is usually omnidirectional, and therefore hard to contain. I am keen to find out what they have planned! Right on my doorstep - exciting!

Beccy Thorp ● 6487d

"The Labour leader should not really get everyone worked up like this as he should know better."<sigh>  Does everything have to descend to party politics?You say you would be horrified if the Park turned into a venue for anti-social events, and that all you want to do is to enable events "such as the Opera" to go ahead.  Fine. I'm sure most people would agree with that.So why have you included the possibility of boxing and wrestling events?  Whoever completed the application form seems to have included every possible activity, whether indoors or outdoors, from 8 a.m. to midnight (or shorter hours on Sundays).  No thought has apparently been given to what types of event at what hours of the day or night would actually be suitable for Ravenscourt Park.  The policy seems to be to tick all the boxes "just in case".Perhaps you can explain why you are seeking to allow facilities for making music to be used ALL NIGHT on Friday/Saturday nights, despite being described as mainly a daytime activity for children and young people?

Richard Jennings ● 6488d

I am told by an H&F Council official that this has all been a bit of a blunder for the new Cabinet Member for Residents Services and that the Administration has been shocked by the magnitude of the response from the public. There were also plans to apply for similar licenses for other local parks and they are now apparently being quietly amended thanks to the public reaction.This licence is not necessary in this form. It would have been better for the Council to apply for a licence for each event and so allow the public to feed in their views in an event-by-event basis. This new permanent licence gives the Council carte blanch on the number and variety of events - which is unnecessary and undemocratic. I’d like to thank all those members of the public who have made their views known.RegardsCllr. Stephen CowanLeader of the Opposition

Stephen Cowan ● 6488d

I have just put a Q&A document on this thread and have forwarded the whole thing on to the editor.  Please take a look.The Labour leader should not really get everyone worked up like this as he should know better.I used like on Ravenscourt Road and would be horrifed if it turned into a venue for anti social events.  We are just regulating the status quo so events such as the Opera can go ahead without having to obtain a new licence everytime they are in the confines of the law.

Cllr Paul Bristow ● 6488d

An alcohol license, fair enough, as somebody one day may wish to hold a wedding reception or similar in the park.  But wrestling/boxing.......definately do not like the idea of that.  Such an event surely would be more suitable to be held in the Town Hall, not a park!  If it is going to go down that sort of route why not allow pole dancing, and I don't mean the Morris kind!

Carol Burge ● 6488d

PREMISES LICENCES FOR RAVENSCOURT PARKWe are aware that the recent notice regarding the application by the Council for a Premises Licence for Ravenscourt Park has caused concern to local residents and wish to clarify the position.  We have done this in the form of frequently asked questions with answers.QuestionWhy has the Council applied for the Premises Licence?AnswerThe Government’s Licensing Act 2003 requires that a park must have a premises licence if any event is to take place there.  As a result many of the parks across London now have a premises licence.In the past, events that have taken place in the park without temporary licences have been outside the law.  We are determined that this does not happen again.In advance of the annual Fireworks/Bonfire events, the Resident Services Department has applied for licences in Bishops Park and Ravenscourt Park.  These cannot take place without a licence.This will avoid the need to re-apply individually for every event held there, which would not be a good use of council taxpayers’ money.  All this licence application will do is regularise the status quo.QuestionWhat activities does the Council plan for Ravenscourt Park?AnswerThis application should not be seen as an indication that we have plans for all the categories of events covered by the notice of the application.  The council already organises events such as the annual Fireworks night, and has given permission for occasional events such as the recent Garden Opera night.  This is the type of event the council wishes to see continue to take place.  The council recognises that Ravenscourt Park is for the enjoyment of local residents and their guests and understands that it is not suitable for large events.  QuestionWill alcohol be available in the Park?AnswerThe Licence Application mentions the occasional sale of alcohol.  This is intended to cover the possibility of only very limited and strictly monitored sale at appropriate events.QuestionHow will local people be protected from excessive noise levels?AnswerAgain there are no plans to hold any events which would generate excessive noise in the park.  There is already a noise limit of a maximum of 90 decibels and this restriction is enforced by the Council’s Environment Protection Officers.QuestionWhat will happen about cleaning the Park after an event has taken place or if the park grounds were damaged?AnswerAs always, the council will ensure the Park is cleaned up after an event such as the Fireworks.It is a condition of use of the borough’s Parks that any damage to the grounds will be re-instated.QuestionHow can local people input into decisions about events that take place in the Park?AnswerAs before, the council have the final say on what events are allowed to take place in the borough’s parks.  Paramount in our mind will be the protection of the park and the impact of an event on neighbouring residents.  To this end, the council will ensure that there is good and ongoing communication with local people and community groups to ensure they are consulted with and kept informed of event applications. Local residents will still be protected by the Council’s strict requirements for the safe management of all events and the Health & Safety of everyone, those using the Park, as well as those attending an event or display. QuestionHow can I/we formally voice concerns about this Premises Licence Application.AnswerAny representations you might wish to make about these applications should be put in writing to:London Borough of Hammersmith & FulhamFAO: Licensing Section5th Floor, Town Hall ExtensionKing StreetLondon W6 9JUTo be received by 2nd October 2007.

Cllr Paul Bristow ● 6488d

I must say I was concerned when I read the notices pinned on the gates to the park.  I can understand them wanting to sell alcohol, late night music and late night refreshments (which happens anyway with the firework night, though without the alcohol) and last week there was an opera evening.  But boxing and wrestling??????  Come on,Council.  This is a lovely park used by families and that sport is the last thing I can envisage among its leafy spaces.  I too would be interested to know what is behind the Council's thinking here.And I should everyone who lives within hearing distance of the park is becoming very concerned at these proposals.

Caroline MacMillan ● 6488d

I feel it makes a total mockery of the policies the very council are alledgly trying to promote. I will knock up an letter in the next couple of days which I hope all in the forum will be happy to sign, I will also contact the local media. From my perspective, this is wholly unacceptable.  And I'm sure most residents will agree.

John Kennedy ● 6489d

Hmm, we live very close to the park and I'm slighly concerned by the prospect of late night drunks staggering around in front of the house... (apart from me, of course!)

Emma Thatcher ● 6489d