Forum Topic

LBHF Parking Fees

Does anyone else think they are a bit high? I notice now it is £1.80 per hour for visitors to park in my street with a minimum fee of 90p for 30 minutes. In Chiswick (under Hounslow) the fee is 70p for 30 minutes. Also, with some Pay and Display machines in Chiswick charges are pro rata so £1 buys you 45 minutes or 20p buys you 9 minutes if you need to dash in and out of somewhere.And get this -I need to have my tree pollarded. I received a quote from the tree cutters with an extra charge of suspending 2 parking bays for their vehicles at £26 per bay plus £65 'council administration charge.' Total £117 + VAT for a 2 hour job!

Marlene Plimley ● 6261d71 Comments

Andrew did you contact the Parking department re the clocks on pay and display machines?

Maggie Dodge ● 6086d

Great, look forward to the outcome.

Maggie Dodge ● 6099d

Hi Maggie,I think I will email them and find out what they have to say. Thanks for the contact information.Andrew

Andrew Jones ● 6099d

Hi Andrew.  I think I have a bit of a reputation now with Hounslow Council (and Ealing for that matter) and I think it would have greater impact if other people made their concerns known. For that reason I think you would be better off taking up this query yourself.  If you e-mail Kevin Hagan at the following address Kevin.Hagan@hounslow.gov.uk I would be interested to hear what response you get.  I know they say the parking attendants ticket machines are 100% accurate (time wise) but not sure what the deal is with pay and display machines.

Maggie Dodge ● 6100d

Maggie,No offence taken! Now that you seem to have got the council to agree to change the wording on the machines ( albeit possibly only when they come update the information the next time there's a tariff change), do you fancy asking them if they are ever going to get the machines to actually be set to the correct time when they issue a pay and display ticket?In my experience the P&D machines are almost always 2-3 minutes slow e.g. If I buy a ticket at exactly 18.30 ( as per the speaking clock) the actual issue time on the ticket is shown as 18.27 or 18.28 and more significantly the expiry time is shown as 18.57 or 18.58.I find it annoying because the error is always in the councils favour, never in the person buying the P&D ticket.PS I suppose this posting is probably more relevant to chiswickW4 but there's more chance of getting your attention on this Website!PPS My comment above is meant slightly in jest ( the bit about you tackling the council over the incorrect time bit!!!)Regards, Andrew

Andrew Jones ● 6100d

Apologies Andrew, it was Aaron who referred to himself as dim.

Maggie Dodge ● 6100d

Andrew yes I check the money registers but not the time.  I think we should agree to disagree.  Although I am not dim even if you say you are.

Maggie Dodge ● 6100d

PS I should add that I have no connection with the council.

Andrew Jones ● 6100d

Maggie,As there isn't a 70 pence coin, most people who pay for parking at a machine would put in a combination of coins, and I for one watch when I'm putting money into a machine that the money is registered as I put it in. Not only does the amount of money registered increase as I'm putting it in, but you can also see the expiry time increasing.So yes, I think you should look at what the machine is displaying, simply because it would be stupid not to. If you had put in £1.40 to the machine to pay for an hours parking can you honestly say that you wouldn't check that the machine had registered your £1.40 before you pressed the issue ticket button?

Andrew Jones ● 6100d

So you think you have to be dim not to understand pro rata.  You also think its ok to have to put money in and see what happens, when a simple notice such as 10p per 10 minutes would take away any confusion.  Another person I suspect must work for the council to try and defend this ridiculous use of latin when plain English would be the obvious choice.

Maggie Dodge ● 6103d

Even if you are dim enough (like me) not to be sure what pro rata means you would put the money in for the parking you need and press the big green button to see if it issues a ticket. The display on the machine changes to show what time the money you have put in will allow you to park until.

Ellen Kearney ● 6104d

I tried very hard not to reply to this because I have done this subject to death, but couldn't stop myself.  With respect Karen do you honestly think that every single motorist out there understands the latin phrase pro rata and can easily put it in context.

Maggie Dodge ● 6110d

'Hounslow's machines which say something like "70p for every 30 minutes.  Charges are pro rata", which some people have interpreted to mean that the minimum charge is 70p, whereas it's actually 10p.'Why would anyone make that interpretation? Doesn't pro rata imply that you can pay less than 70p. Even if it doesn't then you could always put in a smaller amount and see if the machine issues a ticket. They usually display the amount of time the money you have entered gives you.

Karen Cooper ● 6111d

I have a lot of sympathy with the man in this case. £250 for parking a car on a single yellow line in a residential street is not proportionate. Copy the link below into your browser.http://tinyurl.com/44cz3x

Karen Cooper ● 6119d

Thanks Richard, exactly right. This is why I keep banging on about uniformity, at least in the wording even if the charges vary.

Maggie Dodge ● 6156d

"I looked at the text on one of the P&D machines on Ravenscourt Road.  It was clearly and simply laid-out with no mention of Pro-Rata"I expect Maggie was referring to Hounslow's machines which say something like "70p for every 30 minutes.  Charges are pro rata", which some people have interpreted to mean that the minimum charge is 70p, whereas it's actually 10p.

Richard Jennings ● 6156d

I looked at the text on one of the P&D machines on Ravenscourt Road.  It was clearly and simply laid-out with no mention of Pro-Rata, as far as I could see.I can't see how you'd misunderstand or misinterpret the regs from what is written on this machine.

Andrew Broadbent ● 6156d

I believe Hammersmith charge more for pay and display near the shops.

Maggie Dodge ● 6157d

Thousands of people use these machines without complaint. Hounslow  costs are cheaper than  Hammersmith.LBH have some machines that charge 10p for the first half hour near shops in some parts of the Borough. We hope to extend this scheme.

John Todd ● 6159d

Aaron, the parking regulations and even the time plates etc can be so complicated that it is easy to misread or misunderstand the regs.  Particularly when the Council insist on using words such as pro rate on pay and display machines, how many of us really understand what that means and should we need to understand latin to pay to park?

Maggie Dodge ● 6161d

The problem is that these parking charges are not a tax on the wealthy. It's a fixed rate tax that falls most heavily on those on low incomes. Most families of whatever income bracket own a car and you'd probably find that higher earners in the area tend to use the tube to get to the city or the west end and don't use their car much during the week. People in trades or sales type jobs need their car for work. It's impossible to drive and park around the borough without occasionally getting a ticket but it is better educated people (and therefore generally more wealthy ones) that know how to play the system and get their tickets cancelled.

Ellen Kearney ● 6161d

I find that quite a sad letter, to think somebody could become lonely or isolated because we cannot buy visitors permits is awful.  So come on H&F, at least allow us this, other boroughs do, what have you got to lose?

Carol Burge ● 6173d

Has anyone else spotted this letter in this week's edition of H&F news(COMMENT pg. 43)? If not here it is.PARKING COSTS MEAN THE ELDERLY ARE LEFT LONELIERWITH regard to ‘Parking cost for friends and family is a bad idea’ (letters, July 1), I have written to my councillors on this subject with no results. Rosita Sherrard writes in her letter to h&f news about friends in other boroughs buying parking time for friends. Since living in Fulham I have become more and more isolated from my friends, who are advancing in years and and have various reasons for it not being possible or practical to travel by public transport. There are many instances where one needs to use a car. Elderly people do not want to go on public transport at night. We have fewer friends and relatives and need the company of of the people we still have left. And we need to invite people, to help, visit or stay. M Morris

Marlene Plimley ● 6173d

No, it's market forces, and market forces rule our lives, like it or not.The council has (according to some people) decided to use parking charges to raise money and not to discourage car use and parking in the Borough.If the charges are so high that the number of people who park cars in the Borough decreases significantly, then they'll have to reduce the charges in order to encourage more people and therefore get more revenue.  Or, they could increase other revenue streams like Council Tax, or decrease services (fewer refuse collections), etcThe demand for parking seems quite inelastic (i.e. it doesn't decrease much if prices go up) and is therefore a good target for governmental revenue raising (see also cigarettes, alcohol, airline tickets).

Andrew Broadbent ● 6174d

All I'm saying is that if people want to see parking charges reduced, the Counciul's revenue will go down and they will look at other ways of maintaining their income.  So, if parking charges go down, other charges (like Council Tax) will go up.  If people are happy with that, then fine.  Also :- parking taxes raise money from people who park a car it in the Borough, you don't have to be wealthy to have a car these days.- our Council can't say it's underfunded, they reduced Council Tax by an average of 50p per household per week this year.- the money raised from parking also goes to fund stuff like emptying bins and maintaining parks as well as 'social services'.And finally - wouldn't you be worried if DVLA didn'tknow that your MOT had expired ?  Isn't it a good thing that they track who has a car and is insureed in an attempt to reduce the number of uninsured drivers ?  What's 'Big Brother' about that ?

Andrew Broadbent ● 6174d

Sorry I am having a thick day..........so if less people want to park the charges are lower?  Isn't that exploitation?

Carol Burge ● 6174d

isn't that what Andrew was saying ... simple supply and  demand ... maybe no one wants to park in Hounslow.  I'll get my coat.

Sarah Taylor ● 6174d

But surely the Council Tax is for services I receive, albeit indirectly, ie the roads being swept, policing, bins being emptied etc.  So no parking should not be part of this because I do not receive a service to park my car.  What I would like to know is how the charges are calculated that says it costs £60 in Hammersmith to park my car but a lot less in, for example, Hounslow.

Carol Burge ● 6174d

Calm down folks; this is classic Robin Hood method of raising tax from the wealthy as in days of old. Parking charges are an indirect tax raised to prop up overspending by underfunded councils. The enormous revenue they generate are used mainly to fund the social services budget, therefore the moral to the story is steal from the rich to help the poor. If you are okay with that then sleep well. Whilst on the subject of the dreaded car; I have just been on line to the GVLA to renew my tax disc. The computer told me (1) my MOT had expired last week (my fault) and (2) my insurance expired on Monday (I had dealt with that one anyway) I suspect it could tell me where i have been this week, what speed I was doing, progress. If I do not have a new overpriced tax disc by the 1st August no doubt there will be a big truck outside my door taking us all to the crusher for good. I support action against tax and insurance doggers, but it's the "Big Brother" is watching you thing that gives me a shiver. How much is a horse & cart these days??

Roger Hooper ● 6175d

Andrew I want to pay for everything according to its cost.  Not one thing to subsidise another.

Maggie Dodge ● 6175d

The reason that the Council charge to 'park on a piece of tarmac' is....because they can - supply and demand.So, given that Maggie and Carol regard the high parking fees and zoning as being a way for the Council to make money.....would you be happy to see the parking charges lowered and council tax increased to cover the resultant income shortfall ?Sorry if it wasn't clear in my earlier post.BTW, we're in danger of making this forum interesting ;-)

Andrew Broadbent ● 6175d

Andrew I think you and I agree, it's just that you have thought about it more and expressed yourself more clearly. Like you, I don't mind either way.  I also accept that a car is a privilege, and I can see that it's not fair to charge poor people more council tax so that I can park my car outside my home.You and your socialist principles! Let them eat cake!

Sarah Taylor ● 6175d

Good response Caarol.  Sorry Andrew, I don't know where you are coming from.

Maggie Dodge ● 6175d

Of course it is a way to make money, why else would we be charged it?  My gripe is how much I get charged and how the amount is worked out.  Think about it, I pay £60 for 6 months parking, but what do I get for that?  It certainly cannot be classed as secure parking (each morning I am relieved to see there is no damage) and it does not get washed!  So at the end of the day I pay the council money to park on a piece of tarmac!  That is it!  So why does it have to be so costly......what is the justification to charge £60, why not £30?  Any other bill we get has to stipulate what service we are getting, I pay my rent 'cause I live in my flat, I pay my phone bill 'cause I make calls.......so what is used to justify the price to park my car?

Carol Burge ● 6175d

SarahSorry, I guess it was directed at everyone really.  It seems from this thread that a lot of people are concerned that the parking fees charged in LBHF are a way for the Council to make money out of residents and visitors.  If it became clear that the reasons behind charges and zoning DID turn out to be fund raising....I'm interested to know whether people would be happy to see parking charges reduced and Council Tax raised.Personally, I don't mind either way but judging from this thread it may have been a better vote winner for the Council to reduce parking charges rather than give us all a 50p-a-week reduction in Council Tax....Andrew

Andrew Broadbent ● 6175d

I think it would be nice if things were a bit more uniform.  If one borough can do something why can't they all.  I personally would pay (a certain amount) if it means I can park anywhere within my borough based on my parking permit.  My current zone covers quite a large area, but my daughter in the next zone and has a choice of only about two roads, its very uneven and unfair on some people, who are paying the same for their permit.

Maggie Dodge ● 6176d

Andrew, hello.  Can I assume, as it was a 'reply' to my post that that was directed to me? I think so, so I'll go ahead and answer.  I don't know enough about budgets to answer that. That's why I am a voter and not a councillor. I entrust those I vote for to spend my money wisely and on the whole I think they do.  But I would be interested to know if zoning is for environmental reasons or fundraising reasons.

Sarah Taylor ● 6176d

So you'd be happy for them to remove the zoning but to raise Council Tax to cover the revenue shortfall, then ?

Andrew Broadbent ● 6176d

that's a very good question!  I hadn't thought about it before, but now you raise it ... I would be very interested to know why ours is zoned as it is.  I can't think of any good reason, except maybe to stop us from making short journeys for environmental reasons, but that seems far too enlightened.  I'm sure someone else besides me will be suggesting that it's purely to raise money ...

Sarah Taylor ● 6177d

While we are on this topic, why is it that our resident parking permits are restricted to such a limited area. As a resident of W12 I feel I should be able to park anywhere in W12 without having to pay them again. Friends in K&C are able to park in a resident bay anywhere within the borough. Once again, we are being scamed by our lovely money raising council. What do you think??

Roger Hooper ● 6177d

I guess that the aim of the parking charge is to dissuade people from using the Borough as a place to park whilst they take the tube of bus into central London in order to avoid the C-charge or high-cost of parking.Having lived in an area of Chiswick which didn't have a CPZ and had to drive around on my return from work every evening to look for somewhere to park, I think that the charges are a good idea in principle.I guess that the Council charge what they think the market will stand; maybe they've increased the charges by too much. Maybe they've increased them in an attempt to reduce the number of cars driving into the Borough rather than just as a money-making scheme.I'm no expert, but maybe they regard the introduction of a visitor permit scheme as too costly to administer. Maybe they could have introduced such a scheme instead of cutting our Council Tax by 50p a week (woo hoo ;-).Maybe one of our Councillors can give us some further info ?

Andrew Broadbent ● 6180d

I do not have a problem with paying to park my car but am just wondering how the cost is justified?  Where I park my car, Perrers or Attwood depending on space, during the hours of 9 till 5 Monday to Friday I am spoilt for choice in parking spaces.  After 5 or weekends, when it is free, I have problems which makes a joke of having a residents parking permit!  And I still cannot quite work out why the Council do not want to allow us to buy visitors permits, at the end of the day surely they will benefit?

Carol Burge ● 6182d

Whatever.  You seem happier complaining than considering other approaches to avoid having to pay the fees, but that's your issue, not mine.And you don't have to be abusive.  But that's your issue too.

Andrew Broadbent ● 6182d

Lynn, I am completely behind you.  A CPZ should always provide for visitor's parking and I would be beside myself if I lived in an area with such an unfair system.

Maggie Dodge ● 6183d

I have no intention of explaining personal family circumstances on this forum.  I will only reiterate that the high cost of parking is indeed a factor when visiting my elderly grandmother.  Other CPZ schemes have visitor parking, which as far as we are aware works well & that is what we are asking for.To compare GNER or BA with LBH&F council parking schemes is utterly absurd & indeed deluded.  Serious point.

Lynn Clark ● 6183d

Apologies for mixing up your Mum and Grandmother.Your post seemed to imply that you visit your Grandmother less because of the cost of parking.  I still maintain that the cost of parking would not affect the duration and frequency of visits which I make to my elderly Mother and Father.  The cost of petrol or train fare to make the 35-mile journey doesn't enter the equation for me whereas your post seemed to imply that the parking cost is a factor for you.I don't think that my suggestions (I wouldn't have called it advice, but no matter) to use public transport or go at a different time are 'deluded'; maybe you can explain why they are deluded - serious question.Here's an analogy for you.  If I understand correctly, you asked the Council to reduce the cost of parking for you so that you can visit your Grandmother more often and for longer, they declined.  My wife's elderly Mother lives in Aberdeen; would it be 'disgraceful' if GNER or British Airways refused to give my wife cheaper tickets so that she can visit her Mum more often ?  Again, a serious question.

Andrew Broadbent ● 6187d

"If your Mum isn't worth £1.80 an hour..."My post says Grandmother not 'Mum', but thank you for your kind words."...you could always use a bus or a taxi.  Or go at a time when the charges don't apply."Really?  It is remarkable that you believe you know enough of the circumstances & detail to bestow advice, however deluded.

Lynn Clark ● 6188d

ha ha but that's a whole different thread, 'people from the countryside' ...

Sarah Taylor ● 6191d

Not an option,something in order of 1.5 miles across busy roads. My point is; other boroughs (Ealing) provide some free parking for park visitors but once again the arguments are; tube parkers will free-load them. I have a long term view that people who live outside our City should stay there, what do they contribute, fill-up our drains, drop their rubbish, crowd our transport and go home to a better quality of life, so they say. If I was Boris I would impose a daily vistor tax on all of them. grumble, grumble.

Roger Hooper ● 6191d

Hi Roger.  I was just wondering about the logic of driving your dogs to the park.  I don't suppose you could walk the dogs, could you, thereby saving petrol and parking charges on top of the environmental benefits.

Sarah Taylor ● 6191d

I sympathise with you Roger, the permit was intended to benefit us instead it appears now to be being used to fund the ridiculous situation of wardens in Range Rovers.  I would suggest you complain, but my experience of trying to complain to local Councils is that it will drive you to the brink of insanity and not achieve much, although I haven't tried LBHF I assume they are all the same.

Maggie Dodge ● 6192d

I see.  Perhaps you could apply under the Freedom of Information Act and make them tell you exactly what they spend it on.  I don't mind, as long as I can park outside my own house every now and again.  I'm much more annoyed by the speeding in a 20 mph zone, but I guess that would be a different thread altogether.

Sarah Taylor ● 6192d

No Sarah, it is easy to misunderstand the written word especially when a quick response is bashed out. CPZ's were introduced to allow residents to park outside or near their residence( for their benefit and convenience)).  They should also allow friends and family to visit and a nominal charge is acceptable to fund the upkeep of the scheme, they should not be a source of revenue for the Council to use for anything else.

Maggie Dodge ● 6192d

We have to spend an extra charge of £2.70 per day over the cost of a parking permit to take the dogs to the park. When will it end. Please note; The Council park wardens are driving around in two brand new gasguzzling Range Rovers just to check our doggies are doing there things correctly. Poop Police!!!!!!!!!!!

Roger Hooper ● 6193d

Hi Maggie.  I think you were asking why should you pay at all.  I am saying that you - anyone - have to pay so that people who live there, or you who need to visit your mum - can find a space.  I thought you were objecting to having to pay, weren't you?

Sarah Taylor ● 6193d

Er sorry if I'm being thick,  but surely visitors permits would only be used by people authorised to park by a Resident.  Everyone's allowed visitors even if they are aliens from another borough.

Maggie Dodge ● 6193d

* sigh *because, as I have explained before, you have to pay for parking so that people from outside the borough don't park up all day to go to the West End, making it impossible for residents to park.Having a car in any big city is a privilege and not a right.  There's always public transport.  and yes, I do have a car and am grateful for it.

Sarah Taylor ● 6193d

I live in the Ealing borough and our visitors permits are £1 per day, or 40p for three hours.  I don't think the issue is whether you are prepared to pay £1.80 per hour to visit your mum, it's why should you.

Maggie Dodge ● 6193d

If your Mum isn't worth £1.80 an hour, you could always use a bus or a taxi.  Or go at a time when the charges don't apply.

Andrew Broadbent ● 6193d

My 87 year old grandmother lives in a street that charges £1.80 per hour for parking.  We visit her less & when we do go over to do some gardening etc we are constantly clock watching & rushing to finish.  We asked LBH if we could get visitor vouchers but they said no.  It is disgraceful.

Lynn Clark ● 6194d

Would it be cheaper to put the money in the meter for a couple of hours??

Roger Hooper ● 6194d

We've had the questionnaire in zone D too. Deadline is 1 July.  I have said I don't think we need any parking restrictions at the weekends but, like I said, it's very difficult to find a space in the evenings with all the people who park up and then take the tube to the West End, because we're on the edge of Kensington & Chelsea where it's even more expensive. Has anyone else had experience of the visitor parking scheme where you go online to book your visitors' parking.  That sounds quite good to me. Also I said I would like to see a space for those 'streetcar' schemes, where you don't own the car at all, you just pay when you use it.  Anyone used those?

Sarah Taylor ● 6212d

Let's hope that the parking fees stay the same & not increase... I certainly wasn't intimidated.

Mara Novakovic ● 6222d

Be aware that these parking questionnaires are not designed to get your real opinion. They are worded in a way that results in you agreeing to their proposal even if you don't. I live in Zone A and am disgusted with the cost of visitor parking outside my house. It used to be £1.80 an hour but after the consultation, we allegedly all agreed it was OK to raise the price to £2.40 an hour for Pay and Display and to introduce "cheaper" visitor parking at £1.80 an hour which only residents can buy. The idea is that I would reclaim this money from my visitors but in all honesty, how many people feel comfortable taking money from family and friends who visit them?I am all for visitor parking but other boroughs charge a reasonable amount - why is it so high in H&F? I have no objection to paying to park but I really don't want to be ripped off.

Sharon Isaac-Upton ● 6222d

There is a 'Parking Consultation for Zones B & C, in Hammersmith & fulham... so if you live in the zone, have your say on www.citizenspace.com/local/lbhf/bandc

Mara Novakovic ● 6222d

Sorry to say this but at the end of the day the council know they have got you by the proverbials !  If we don't like the charges what can we do.......apart from not have a car or have friends/relatives with cars.

Carol Burge ● 6223d

'I don't mind at all that it's expensive for visitors,'Well I'm afraid I DO mind. I am thinking of having some work done in my flat and the builder will have to pay over £14 a day or £70 per week to park in my road which he will probably charge to me and fair enough. The pensioners on our street get fewer visitors now with such high fees. Just a short distance away in Borough of Ealing, the cost of a visitors permit per day is £1 or 40p for 3 hours  and a years resident permit is £45 compared to H'Smith at £99.It is time LBHF introduced a visitor voucher scheme though I imagine if they did the cost would be higher than surrounding boroughs.

Marlene Plimley ● 6223d

Still, at least you can park for free on Bank Holidays. Some boroughs won't let you do that.

Andrew Jones ● 6240d

thing is, you're not so much paying to park there yourself (outside your own home, I know), you're paying for other people who take the tube to the west end NOT to park there.  I live at Barons Court and I don't mind at all that it's expensive for visitors, because it means I won't have to drive round and round so many times when I want to park.  I imagine - though I don't know - that it's more expensive to park in Hammersmith than further out because it's more popular for park and riders ...

Sarah Taylor ● 6248d

There seem to be complaints about parking departments which ever of the boroughs you live in, certainly around West London.  Me thinks they need taking down a peg or two. I pointed out a while ago that whilst the LBH pay and display machines are pro rata, a lot of people either didn't notice, or didn't understand what it meant.  I was told by LBH that they would eventually make the signage clearer, having to admit it was a fault on their part, but that they could not afford to do so at the moment.  They can however find the money to re-paint some of the parking bays to make them "loading only", causing no end of problems and raking in revenue from the poor unsuspecting people who don't understand the rules around loading only bays, or not noticing they had been changed.  Funny that how they can find money for some things and not others.

Maggie Dodge ● 6250d

I do agree, also the parking permits are a lot higher in Hammersmith then in Hounslow, and in Hounslow you can buy visitors permits which you cannot do in Hammersmith

Carol Burge ● 6260d